First boltsons

[88foxresto]

Im new to the ford family and wondered what are some the first things that should be done to the car performance wise? My 88 vert gt has 120k miles on it and am thinking of a rebuild. I am currently converting it to mass air and have a k&n and borlas dumped. I was thinking full length to get a better sound.

[Silver91Hatch]

First off a good tune up, coil, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel filter, oil change. Make sure the foundation is good before you start building a house. If all that has been done, then first off a nice set of headers be it long tubes or shorties, a set of gears, if 5 speed a nice shifter, if auto a nice shift kit. I'm sure everybody else will add onto this. Of course if funds are there a nice Head/Cam/Intake will do wonders.

[Wayne's 88 GT]

First mod after getting all the mechanicals out of the way I'd say is the rear gear if you are still running the 2.73 rear ratio. Also rear control arms.
If you have a 5 speed, then a upgraded clutch I would recommend. Heads, cam intake and exhaust next........then after that depends on how much you wanna spend and what your plans are for the car. Best of luck with the upgrades and if you need anything.....post up and let us know

[Notch93]

First mod after getting all the mechanicals out of the way I'd say is the rear gear

X2 :yes1:

[88foxresto]

okay i have decided on longtube headers and gears. Need name brand and size. and possibly an intake, cobra maybe. Or any other you guys would prefer.

[Notch93]

5 speed or auto?

[Silver91Hatch]

Gears, doesn't really matter name brand, Ford, Ford Racing, Richmond, etc.
Headers, BBK, Mac, etc.
Intake, Cobra, Edelbrock, Pro Products for a cheap-o.

[crumbie]

tune up first. then exhaust and gear. then save up for h/c/i and size tb and mass air/injectors per whatever h/c/i you go with.

[88foxresto]

5 speed or auto?
5 speed, getting a new clutch soon

[bonesgt]

tune up first. then exhaust and gear. then save up for h/c/i and size tb and mass air/injectors per whatever h/c/i you go with.
X2

[Notch93]

5 speed, getting a new clutch soon

Like others have said, tune up first. BBK makes a nice longtube header, IMO, I would stay away from anything MAC. With a 5 speed, I would go with 3.73 gears.

[NOTCHED]

http://users.net66.com/~sckiddoo/cheap.html

"Cheap Tricks to Improve Your Mustang's Performance"

[XSR]

If you are sticking with the stock heads, don't blow money on intakes(unless heads are in the near future). If you plan to keep the stockers for awhile, and budget limited, have the lower ported. Get a good cam, MAF, exhaust, and gears.

[crumbie]

I'm gonna have to vote for the bbk 1 5/8 longtubes, bbk matching shorty hpipe, and flowmaster catback. Longtubes fit great and exhaust sounds excellent. I'd also vote for some FMS or Richmond 3.73 for the gear.

Cheapest route would be the trick flow top end kit from summitracing.com. That with a 70mm tb and 77mm mass air with 24s or 30lb injectors and she'll be rolling nice.

As for a clutch, all I have is a cheapo Ford Motorsport clutch and it was enough to break an axle so I'd vote for one of those or the King Cobra version.

[88foxresto]

okay sounds great. Ill get some bbk long tube and fms 3.73's to start out. I already have some borla xr-1's so ill keep them. Curious, anyboby know the difference 3.73 gears would make in the 1/8 or 1/4 being stock like me?

[88foxresto]

Oh and one more thing, chrome or ceramics? i have never tried chrome but i love the ceramics.

[Stable]

one thing that has been left out....subframe connectors if it does not have them...saves the car in the long run

[crumbie]

one thing that has been left out....subframe connectors if it does not have them...saves the car in the long run

this is very much true. i shoulda had mine put on years ago instead of propping up the wall in the garage.

[Notch93]

one thing that has been left out....subframe connectors if it does not have them...saves the car in the long run

Actually that should be your first mod.:yes1: Not only do they help save the car, they can save lives also.:thumbsup1:

[SVTSkip]

Always go with the ceramic coating on the headers. I use the BBK L/T's , and I think they do just fine. The 3.73's should be worth a few tenths for you in the 1/4, but the big thing will be the extra torque multiplication. They dont add power, but it will sure make the seat of your pants THINK you did !

As stated above, dont go worrying about an intake unless you plan to do a head swap, and I wouldn't do that unless you plan to do a cam swap as well. The heads/cam/intake all should be purchased as a group that compliment each other. It will do you no good to have heads/intake that work well at 6500rpm if your cam signs off at 5000rpm right ?!?! Once you come up with the budget for the H/C/I package let us know, and we can help you sort through the myriad of options including one of my favorites: the custom camshaft ! We'll make sure you dont go into anything misinformed and make a porr decision. Buying all these parts the first time is great if you have a good plan, and measuring twice, or fifty times and only cutting once is definitely a part of that LOL ! We're here for you if you need us ! :thumbsup1:

[88foxresto]

okay thanks. this is all good info. now what about adjusting the timing on the engine. can that help after all the mods that i will make? that is a knew field for me.

[SVTSkip]

Yes, you can adjust your timing if you have a timing light. If you need help doing the timing adjustment just holler. There are probably a hundred threads on it, but I'll be more than happy to walk you through it if you want...:thumbsup1:

[88foxresto]

Yes, you can adjust your timing if you have a timing light. If you need help doing the timing adjustment just holler. There are probably a hundred threads on it, but I'll be more than happy to walk you through it if you want...:thumbsup1:

okay thanks. well it wont be anytime soon cause i just spent 650 on some cobra wheels. but hopefully the holidays will be nice and help me out. Probaby the first mods will be subframe connectors, gears and long tubes.
And what about h or x pipes?

[Notch93]

And what about h or x pipes?


Both are equal, so pick the one that you think sounds better. IMO, I like an H-Pipe on a pushrod motor.

[Silver91Hatch]

x2

[bsfd172]

I tend to agree with everyone else. H/C/I is the best way to get more power out of the stang. I have found that an x-pipe flows a little better than an H. The ceramic headers are definately the way to go if you have a little extra $$, especially to drop the engine bay temp more so than the chrome pair. Good luck, and like many have said before if you need help just shout.

[SVTSkip]

I too prefer the sound of the H pipe on the pushrod engined Mustangs. The later cars sound better to me with an X pipe, but I've tried both in my car, and the H sounds better IMHO. :thumbsup1:

[Notch93]

I have found that an x-pipe flows a little better than an H.



Dyno sheets & #'s please.:yes1: Or proof of that statement.:thumbsup1:

[Blacksheep]

Dyno sheets & #'s please.:yes1: Or proof of that statement.:thumbsup1:

http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/exhaust2.html

Bottom of page 2 and most of page 3, read the summary on page 3. True its not a mustang but.....

This topic has been debated over and over and over and OVER! :yes1::yes1:


IMO, the H is a lil more quiet than the X, i have a H with flows on my car, and i feel like my car is not even running when im around my buddys with there X's. (Dont get me wrong, i LOVE the way my car sounds, but for me..... it just aint loud enough!!) But i cant tell u the # of people who have said my exhaust sounds good, more than my buddys with the X's. Soooo im goin with a X just cuz of the sound, its louder, and thats what i want. As far as performance aspect of it. I believe the X gives you a lil more, will u be able to tell just driving your car, prob not. Like i said, we can debate this all day long just like it has been done before, but in the end, its all in what U want ur car to sound like. I believe NASCAR uses X's on there cars, I THINK! :thumbsup1: Thats just my .02

[Blacksheep]

Never mind that link i post above, thats not on a mustang, here is a test that 5.0 Mag did. The H is worth more power down low, and the X is better for higher RPM

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/4376_h_x_pipe_test/index.html

That sould settle any discussion over the 2

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll196/3black0sheep6/p32980_image_large.jpg

[Notch93]

http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/exhaust2.html

Bottom of page 2 and most of page 3, read the summary on page 3. True its not a mustang but.....

This topic has been debated over and over and over and OVER! :yes1::yes1:


IMO, the H is a lil more quiet than the X, i have a H with flows on my car, and i feel like my car is not even running when im around my buddys with there X's. (Dont get me wrong, i LOVE the way my car sounds, but for me..... it just aint loud enough!!) But i cant tell u the # of people who have said my exhaust sounds good, more than my buddys with the X's. Soooo im goin with a X just cuz of the sound, its louder, and thats what i want. As far as performance aspect of it. I believe the X gives you a lil more, will u be able to tell just driving your car, prob not. Like i said, we can debate this all day long just like it has been done before, but in the end, its all in what U want ur car to sound like. I believe NASCAR uses X's on there cars, I THINK! :thumbsup1: Thats just my .02

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/4376_h_x_pipe_test/photo_01.html

[Notch93]

:lol1::lol1::lol1:We both found the same article.

[Blacksheep]

Lol, yea i found it after i posted the first one, hahaha

[SVTSkip]

Heck the ONLY spot in that test where the X pipe was better was right at the very end of the run where it was up by 3hp , and 3 lb/ft. EVERYWHERE else it was down on power compared to the H...

[88foxresto]

and the h pipes are cheaper lol at bbk that is. and thats what im going with and the long tubes to go with. I can get my nieghbor to help me with the 3.73 gear. then i can advance the timing and get it tuned with the mass air conversion that i will do first. Oh and stable will set me up with some custom sub frames. thanks for all the help everybody has given. i will have some ideas on the h/c/i combo by summer cause the grass has stopped growing i dont have much for that yet. Just to throw something out but what do you guys think about thumper performance ported E7 heads? just thought it would be a nice bang for the buck pair of heads. they claim to flow better than gt40x heads.

[Notch93]

Just to throw something out but what do you guys think about thumper performance ported E7 heads? just thought it would be a nice bang for the buck pair of heads. they claim to flow better than gt40x heads.


I went 12.70's with thumper heads, GT40 intake, E303 cam, 4.10 gears, with a C4 with a 3200 stall converter.

If your really interested in going with Thumper heads LMK. I have a set in the garage with 1.94 & 1.60 valves, they were also converted to stud mount. I'll make you a good deal on the heads and Scorpion 1.6 rockers. I had the machine shop check them out before I put them on my 89, they were only on the car for 1,500 miles before it got totaled.

[88foxresto]

I went 12.70's with thumper heads, GT40 intake, E303 cam, 4.10 gears, with a C4 with a 3200 stall converter.

If your really interested in going with Thumper heads LMK. I have a set in the garage with 1.94 & 1.60 valves, they were also converted to stud mount. I'll make you a good deal on the heads and Scorpion 1.6 rockers. I had the machine shop check them out before I put them on my 89, they were only on the car for 1,500 miles before it got totaled.

nice this would be a great start for my h/c/i combo. did you notice a big difference in performance? the only thing is convencing my dad to get these. cause he thinks its plenty fast for someone who just got their license. but he should as long as i dont tell my mom:lol1:. just give me your number and i will save it when i get to the top end partof the build.

[Notch93]

nice this would be a great start for my h/c/i combo. did you notice a big difference in performance? the only thing is convencing my dad to get these. cause he thinks its plenty fast for someone who just got their license. but he should as long as i dont tell my mom:lol1:. just give me your number and i will save it when i get to the top end partof the build.

Yes you notice a big difference, but you need to upgrade the intake, or at least have the stock lower ported.

You can find me on the site any day of the week.:yes1: If you need a set of 3.73's LMK, I have a brand new set in the garage.:thumbsup1:

[88foxresto]

Yes you notice a big difference, but you need to upgrade the intake, or at least have the stock lower ported.

You can find me on the site any day of the week.:yes1: If you need a set of 3.73's LMK, I have a brand new set in the garage.:thumbsup1:

sweet man. this all sounds to good to be true:lol1:so how much for the gears? that would save me some shipping cost from lrs. the heads will come later though if you will still have them. just give me some contact #s and we can go from there.:thumbsup1:

[Notch93]

so how much for the gears? that would save me some shipping cost from lrs.

I'm in Charlotte, but the first one to put a $100.00 bill in my hand takes the gears.

[88foxresto]

I'm in Charlotte, but the first one to put a $100.00 bill in my hand takes the gears.

that will be me hopelfully. could you mail them or do we have to meet cause im in peidomont or greenville. so thats like 2 or 3 hours. i got the money so just whenever man. my cell is 864-608-9660 and its langston

[Notch93]

that will be me hopelfully. could you mail them or do we have to meet cause im in peidomont or greenville. so thats like 2 or 3 hours. i got the money so just whenever man. my cell is 864-608-9660 and its langston

I would ship them, but you cover the shipping cost. I would come down and visit the Greenville crew, but my car is setting in the garage with a screwed up AOD.:thumbsdown1:

[88foxresto]

just let me know what the cost is and we can go from there. i would like to get them in before i go back to school so i can smoke my buddies bmw.

[Notch93]

just let me know what the cost is and we can go from there. i would like to get them in before i go back to school so i can smoke my buddies bmw.

They are not light, so probably around $20.00. Tell you what, if you want them, I'll do $115 shipped, if it cost more then $15 to ship, I'll cover the difference.:thumbsup1:

[88foxresto]

hey you are the man.:thumbsup1: you got your self a deal. i can send cash or check. whatever you want.

[Notch93]

hey you are the man.:thumbsup1: you got your self a deal. i can send cash or check. whatever you want.

You can send a money order, that works.:yes1: I'll PM you my address.

[88foxresto]

You can send a money order, that works.:yes1: I'll PM you my address.

aight that works

[Notch93]

Did you get my PM?

[88foxresto]

yep:thumbsup1: ill try to send it by the end of this week.

[Notch93]

Not a problem, I'll send them UPS. When they are shipped, I'll PM you the tracking #.:thumbsup1: Shouldn't take but a day to get to you.

[SVTSkip]

The Thumper heads are an improvement over a set of E7's, and about comparable with GT40's of the iron variety, but I doubt they work as well as the GT40X aluminums. If the deal is a good one, then combine that with a Gt40/Cobra intake and a TFS I cam. I would recommend Scorpion 1.6's, but they'll already be there, and I'd also upgrade the fuel pump to a 190lph minimum along with 24# injectors and a 76mm MAF and 70mm T/B. That setup should run plenty strong for you, and after that focus on the suspension so you can use all the power you have !

[88foxresto]

The Thumper heads are an improvement over a set of E7's, and about comparable with GT40's of the iron variety, but I doubt they work as well as the GT40X aluminums. If the deal is a good one, then combine that with a Gt40/Cobra intake and a TFS I cam. I would recommend Scorpion 1.6's, but they'll already be there, and I'd also upgrade the fuel pump to a 190lph minimum along with 24# injectors and a 76mm MAF and 70mm T/B. That setup should run plenty strong for you, and after that focus on the suspension so you can use all the power you have !

okay what about the Gt40X. how much better are they? And what do i need to upgrage suspenion wise?

[DSTRBD]

Gears, timing, exhaust system, for starters... Cam, Heads, and Intake with more $

[Silver91Hatch]

Didn't see anywhere but has the air silencer been removed???

[88foxresto]

Didn't see anywhere but has the air silencer been removed???

yep it has a k&n cone filter on it

[SVTSkip]

okay what about the Gt40X. how much better are they? And what do i need to upgrage suspenion wise?


They're worth about 20-25hp over the GT40 Irons, but unless you find a set used in good shape, you'd be spending almost what a set of Twisted Wedges would cost, and if you have a choice between the two the TW's would win hands down !

If you're setting up the suspension for the street, but with a focus on drag racing, then you'll want to upgrade the rear upper/lower control arms, all the bushings, the springs, shocks, and struts, a set of subframe connectors would also be smart. If focusing on open track roundy/round type stuff, you'll need the same parts swapped, just different models/makes...

[88foxresto]

They're worth about 20-25hp over the GT40 Irons, but unless you find a set used in good shape, you'd be spending almost what a set of Twisted Wedges would cost, and if you have a choice between the two the TW's would win hands down !

If you're setting up the suspension for the street, but with a focus on drag racing, then you'll want to upgrade the rear upper/lower control arms, all the bushings, the springs, shocks, and struts, a set of subframe connectors would also be smart. If focusing on open track roundy/round type stuff, you'll need the same parts swapped, just different models/makes...

so with the gt40x heads, what intake and cam would i be looking at? And an estimate on horsepower?

[SVTSkip]

If you go with the GT40X, you'd only need an entry level intake like a Cobra or GT40. Use either of those with a TFS I, or better yet an FTI custom cam, and you should be able to get over 300hp at the crank. For the same or close money a set of 190cc TFS Twisted Wedge heads and a Holley Systemax intake with the aforementioned FTI custom cam would be worth 370hp at the crank and maybe a little more...

For the first setup you could use a set of 24# injectors and matching MAF. If you go with the TFS/Holley combo, you'd want a set of 30# injecotrs and matching MAF...

[Blacksheep]

Dude, if you gonna take the time to pull your heads off, then put something worth a **** back on there, not just a "stock" head. My buddy put GT-40 irons on his car, sure he ran them for a while, but he got tired of the high numbers he was running at the track.... So They came off and a good alum. head went on. Im not bashing GT-40's by any means, i understand people make big power with them, and run low #'s at the track. But........ unless your looking for just a lil bit, and not much, then sure GT-40's, but your gonna want more, and your gonna wish you put a trick flow on there or something. Putting GT-40's on a car is basically making your car a STOCK 93 cobra......... Whats the fun in that????

But hey, thats just my .02. Like i said, im not bashing GT-40's, but im just not a big fan of them.....

[88foxresto]

Dude, if you gonna take the time to pull your heads off, then put something worth a **** back on there, not just a "stock" head. My buddy put GT-40 irons on his car, sure he ran them for a while, but he got tired of the high numbers he was running at the track.... So They came off and a good alum. head went on. Im not bashing GT-40's by any means, i understand people make big power with them, and run low #'s at the track. But........ unless your looking for just a lil bit, and not much, then sure GT-40's, but your gonna want more, and your gonna wish you put a trick flow on there or something. Putting GT-40's on a car is basically making your car a STOCK 93 cobra......... Whats the fun in that????

But hey, thats just my .02. Like i said, im not bashing GT-40's, but im just not a big fan of them.....

so what kind of combo would you recommend?

[Silver91Hatch]

Trick Flow top end kit.

[NOTCHED]

aight that works

Why waste the postage? If you both have email addresses, you can transfer money online by way of Paypal right in to the o/person's bank account! :) Saves time, money AND hassle :)

[Notch93]

Why waste the postage? If you both have email addresses, you can transfer money online by way of Paypal right in to the o/person's bank account! :) Saves time, money AND hassle :)

Have you ever loss money via paypal? I have and will never use them again.

Here, you like to read and learn correct? Read some of this site.

www.paypalsucks.com

[Blacksheep]

so what kind of combo would you recommend?
Trick Flow Top end kit is my #1 choice. :patriot:

Or you can mix it up, do something like Trick Flow heads, and a Holley Systamax (sp) intake, with a custom cam. (if u plan on doin a boosted app)

Performer RPM's are a good head also. Hell even the Patriot Performance heads is a good one. Not as great as Trick Flow, but most of the Trick Flow, Holley, and Eddlebrok stuff is better that GT-40's. If ur gonna do it, do it one time the rite way. :yes1:

[Notch93]

Trick Flow Top end kit is my #1 choice. :patriot:

Or you can mix it up, do something like Trick Flow heads, and a Holley Systamax (sp) intake, with a custom cam. (if u plan on doin a boosted app)

RPM2's are a good head also. Hell even the Patriot Performance heads is a good one. Not as great as Trick Flow, but most of the Trick Flow, Holley, and Eddlebrok stuff is better that GT-40's. If ur gonna do it, do it one time the rite way. :yes1:

I went faster with the thumpers, GT40 intake, and custom cam. Then my friends with the TFS top end kit.:yes1::lol1::lol1:

It was always nice to say you just beat by an E7 head.:patriot:

[Blacksheep]

I went faster with the thumpers, GT40 intake, and custom cam. Then my friends with the TFS top end kit.:yes1::lol1::lol1:

It was always nice to say you just beat by an E7 head.:patriot:

Then that means somebody dont know how to drive.....................:lol1:


Put the cars on the dyno and see who makes more.......

[Notch93]

Then that means somebody dont know how to drive.....................:lol1:


Put the cars on the dyno and see who makes more.......

No, they knew how to drive.:yes1: Dyno #'s don't mean jack crap.:nonono1: I have seen cars that make big power on the dyno, get beat at the track by cars that make less power on the dyno, on many different occasions.

How many different combo's have you built, and ran?

[Blacksheep]

HAHAHAHA, you dont have to "build" them to be able to see #'s for your self. There is not a person in this world that can convince me that a Thumper E7 head is better than a trick flow, and that the E7 head would beat the trick flow EVERY time. No way, no how. If that was the case then there would be no demand for a after market head. And trick flow, holley etc.... would not be as big as they are with there heads. Sure, flukes happen..... A E7 head can beat a trick flow head. Not likely, dont happen all the time. But sure it could happen. But if ur saying that a E7 head is better than a GOOD after market alum. head, then i strongly disagree with you. Ill pay 2700 for the top end kit, and throw away the E7's or sell them on ebay for 20 bucks.

Now about the GT-40 heads, sure there a increase over the stock heads. But thats all they are, and thats all they will ever be is just a STOCK head!!!! May not be stock for your car (anything other than 93 cobra) but none the less they still are a stock head. And STOCK will only get you so far...... Now sure ive seen cars making very big numbers on GT-40 heads, with a custom Ed Curtis cam. Not sayin it cant happen, but its not easy.
IMO the trick flow top end kit, is the best bang for your buck when it comes to H/C/I.

Take the E7's and GT-40's to CNC and have them melted down or something, use them as paper weights, but on MY car, when those E7's get pulled off, there will be nothing less than a Trick Flow goin on, and i **** sure would not put a IRON head back on there. But hey, thats just me, u can dissagree if u want, thats no prob.

[SVTSkip]

Trick Flow Top end kit is my #1 choice. :patriot:

Or you can mix it up, do something like Trick Flow heads, and a Holley Systamax (sp) intake, with a custom cam. (if u plan on doin a boosted app)

RPM2's are a good head also. Hell even the Patriot Performance heads is a good one. Not as great as Trick Flow, but most of the Trick Flow, Holley, and Eddlebrok stuff is better that GT-40's. If ur gonna do it, do it one time the rite way. :yes1:



Careful when giving advice Bro, there's a couple booboo's in there:

RPM II is an intake not a cylinder head. Edelbrock offers the Performer, Performer RPM, Performer RPM XT, Victor Jr, and Victor cylinder heads for the 302/351 Ford.

The Patriot heads come with a 2.02 intake valve, and with an inline valve configuration and a stock piston he'd be looking at valve clearance issues. The only heads I know of with a 2.02 intake valve that work well with a stock piston are the TFS Twisted Wedges. Because of the revised valve locations they dont have an issue with clearance in a stock piston application...

Not trying to bust your chops, merely make sure that someone new to the hobby doesn't run into issues from the advice we give them here ! :thumbsup1:

[Blacksheep]

Careful when giving advice Bro, there's a couple booboo's in there:

RPM II is an intake not a cylinder head. Edelbrock offers the Performer, Performer RPM, Performer RPM XT, Victor Jr, and Victor cylinder heads for the 302/351 Ford.

The Patriot heads come with a 2.02 intake valve, and with an inline valve configuration and a stock piston he'd be looking at valve clearance issues. The only heads I know of with a 2.02 intake valve that work well with a stock piston are the TFS Twisted Wedges. Because of the revised valve locations they dont have an issue with clearance in a stock piston application...

Not trying to bust your chops, merely make sure that someone new to the hobby doesn't run into issues from the advice we give them here ! :thumbsup1:

Fixed :thumbsup1:

Im afraid you are mistaken on one part of what u said, The Patriot heads will work. Ive heard that soooo many times about the clearance issues, thats why i bought a set to try them out. I even called Patriot on this issue and they said that they have not had any prob. out of them with the clearance issues, as several of them are running them on there own cars. The heads i bought i had to see due to other issues, but i did help install them on a car, and with 1.7 rockers and a stock cam,(even if you run a after market cam, just pay attention to your lift.) i was gonna run a custom cam with them. no prob what so ever. But like i said, u are not the only one that has said that. And thanks again for correcting me on the RPM2 head.

[SVTSkip]

I have seen and worked on folks cars where they had a 2.02 valve installed without any clearance issues or problems at all. Folks are either getting lucky with the cc volume on the heads used, or very mild cam figures, but here's the deal. The 2.02 is not designed to work on a factory pistons valve relief plain and simple. You might get away with it for awhile, and you might get lucky and never once over rev it, or have a spring get old, but at some point on a factory piston you WILL be inviting trouble. Thats no different than the folks that run over 500hp with a factory block, or 7.5 rears in transplanted V8 cars that are running fast times. Just because someone got away with it for awhile doesn't make it a good idea. Everyone is of course welcome to make whatever choice they wish, but I base my recommendations on things that if anything err to the side of caution/longevity...:)

[Blacksheep]

O im not sayin he hasta go with those, i was just saying that they will work, for how long no body knows, they might work for the life of the car, or like u said, might over rev, to big a cam, etc.... there are several things that can go wrong, but if you do ur reasearch, get a good cam and watch it. you will be ok. There not a bad head, just a fairly new head to the push rod world, i have heard great things about patriot and mod moters, so i wanted to find out for my self. Like we are talkin about the gain IMO arent worth the "risk". It gained about 60-65hp, which really aint that bad, but you will gain more from a trick flow IMO

[Notch93]

HAHAHAHA, you dont have to "build" them to be able to see #'s for your self. There is not a person in this world that can convince me that a Thumper E7 head is better than a trick flow, and that the E7 head would beat the trick flow EVERY time. No way, no how. If that was the case then there would be no demand for a after market head. And trick flow, holley etc.... would not be as big as they are with there heads. Sure, flukes happen..... A E7 head can beat a trick flow head. Not likely, dont happen all the time. But sure it could happen. But if ur saying that a E7 head is better than a GOOD after market alum. head, then i strongly disagree with you. Ill pay 2700 for the top end kit, and throw away the E7's or sell them on ebay for 20 bucks.

Now about the GT-40 heads, sure there a increase over the stock heads. But thats all they are, and thats all they will ever be is just a STOCK head!!!! May not be stock for your car (anything other than 93 cobra) but none the less they still are a stock head. And STOCK will only get you so far...... Now sure ive seen cars making very big numbers on GT-40 heads, with a custom Ed Curtis cam. Not sayin it cant happen, but its not easy.
IMO the trick flow top end kit, is the best bang for your buck when it comes to H/C/I.

Take the E7's and GT-40's to CNC and have them melted down or something, use them as paper weights, but on MY car, when those E7's get pulled off, there will be nothing less than a Trick Flow goin on, and i **** sure would not put a IRON head back on there. But hey, thats just me, u can dissagree if u want, thats no prob.

Show me where I said that the Thumper heads were better then aftermarket aluminum heads. Now I did say that I had beaten a couple cars that had the upper TFS kit, with the combo I had. But never said they were better.

Would I buy a set from Mike (Thumper) now over a set of aluminum, no. Mike did my heads way before there were 20 + companies selling aftermarket heads. And that is what I was going for, open the hood and all you could tell was I had a GT40 intake, and what sounded like an E303 cam.

And for the money, IMO the TFS kit ain't worth the money for 290-300 at the rear wheels. When it can be done for a whole hell of a lot less money. Just look at Scott (rsw007) on the site. He runs better times then most with the TFS kits. And he hasn't spent anywhere near what the TFS kit cost.

Look what the guys are running in the NMRA Factory Stock Class. Yes they can run up to 311 CI's. But they still run either E7's or GT40's or P's unported.


http://www.nmraracing.com/rules/fs.html

[SVTSkip]

Good point there, and the folks in Factory Stock always seem to have the wednesday motors for sure. Ever see what Bob Cosby was able to make a stock 4V car do ? Sick, simply sick !


There are a number of different ways that you can do your combo, and as you can see opinions vary. Some of us have tried things with good success, and some of us had to learn the hard way through numerous combos before finally figuring out what works well together. I'm of the hardhead/took me awhile group, and I've had 14 Stangs to perfect the process, and I still aint there LOL !!! I can keep you from making the same mistakes I made though, and thats where you can really save some coin/frustration...

[Notch93]

Good point there, and the folks in Factory Stock always seem to have the wednesday motors for sure. Ever see what Bob Cosby was able to make a stock 4V car do ? Sick, simply sick !


There are a number of different ways that you can do your combo, and as you can see opinions vary. Some of us have tried things with good success, and some of us had to learn the hard way through numerous combos before finally figuring out what works well together. I'm of the hardhead/took me awhile group, and I've had 14 Stangs to perfect the process, and I still aint there LOL !!! I can keep you from making the same mistakes I made though, and thats where you can really save some coin/frustration...

Yep, Bill sure did good with the old coupe, and the 4 valve.:yes1:

One thing everyone is not mentioning. You can have all the power in the world, but if you can't put it to the ground, it's useless.

The suspension plays a lot into the factor.

[SVTSkip]

Actually Bro we talked about it in post #51, and 56... :)

[88foxresto]

One thing everyone is not mentioning. You can have all the power in the world, but if you can't put it to the ground, it's useless.

The suspension plays a lot into the factor.[/QUOTE]

So what do you guys think should be the first suspension mods to put all of those horses to the ground? I am already in the process of getting sub frames from stable.

[SVTSkip]

Subframes are definitely a good start. Rounding out a basic drag oriented setup would be a set of springs, shocks, struts, and upper and lower control arms for the rear.

I use:

FRPP subframes
Lakewood driveshaft loop
FRPP aluminum driveshaft
Lakewood 70/30 struts
Lakewood 50/50 shocks
Eibach Draglaunch kit with passenger side airbag
UPR double adjustable upper control arms
Granatelli adjustable spring perch lower control arms
Weld Draglite wheels with Nitto 275-50-15 DR's on the rear

The car hooks well even on the street. After installing the custom all forged 420hp motor thats in it now, I had trouble with traction and was spinning all the way up into 4th gear on 295 series street tires. With the drag suspension and the Nitto DR's on there it will spin if you get crazy aggressive off the line, but a decent launch can be accomplished with just a bit of scratching, and another scratch on the 1-2 gear change, as well as a little chirp on the 2-3. WAAAAY better than it was before ! I used the same setup on a 92 Hatch that I had years ago and that car would 60 ft in the high 1.5 to low 1.6 area, and ran 11.2's all day long with an AOD...

[crumbie]

If you have decent bank:
Trick Flow Heads (can find used all day long)
Holley Systemax Intake
TFS 1 Cam
Accufab 70mm TB
Some 76mm MAF with 30lb injectors

Budget build:
Thumper ported stock heads
TMoss ported stock intake
tfs 1 cam
Pro Products 70mm TB
Some 76mm MAF and 24-30(?)lb injectors

[Notch93]

Budget build:
Thumper ported stock heads
TMoss ported stock intake ( I would let Greg at XSR port the stock intake.:yes1:)
tfs 1 cam
Pro Products 70mm TB ( I would use a 65mm, unless the opening is opened on the upper.)
Some 76mm MAF and 24-30(?)lb injectors (75mm Pro-M bullet works well)

Added a few differnent options.

[Wayne's 88 GT]

Im new to the ford family and wondered what are some the first things that should be done to the car performance wise? My 88 vert gt has 120k miles on it and am thinking of a rebuild. I am currently converting it to mass air and have a k&n and borlas dumped. I was thinking full length to get a better sound.

The real question that you need to answer is..........what are you going to use the Mustang for? Are you going for an all out drag car....... a corner carver.........street driver with occasional track use or just a daily driver to have some fun with? You could go with tons of different combinations.....just depends on how much coin do you want to drop?

Here is my opinion on this as I am doing the same thing to my 88 GT....(it is completely stock with exception to the K&N panel filter, Summit Racing coil and Flowmaster mufflers with turndowns.)
I would start with the rear gear and suspension mods 1st. The rear gear change will not gain you any power......but you will see it accelerate faster. Change the rear control arms.....install the subframe connectors.....get good shocks and springs. If you are planning to have big power gains.....upgrade the brakes. If you get all this done before you add on a power adder or the H/C/I upgrade you will be able to manage the power gains alot better. What good is it to gain 50hp++ at the wheels if your suspension and brakes can't handle it?

As far as what to get when you do the heads/cam/intake upgrade......I've heard people swear by aftermarket aluminum heads and I've seen people do things with the stock stuff or iron GT40/GT40P stuff....all I can say is do some research on what you want and ask questions from guys that have run diff combinations before you lay down your cash on it. That is what is so fun about this.....there isn't just one way to do it......and with everyone here on this site you'll see all types of stuff being used here on our foxes.
Best of luck with the upgrades and keep us posted on what you end up doing!

[crumbie]

or could just leave the motor stock and spray a small 75-100 dry shot :hi: