Why won't this motor perform?????

[drivin-fool]

Ok gang here's the story...I bought a GT-40X crate motor with an E-303 cam back in Sept. It had roughly 5000 miles on it. I installed it with the 30 lb injectors, 75 mm Mass Air, Explorer GT-40 intake, adjustable fuel reg. @ 42 psi, spark plugs gapped at .52 and the best I can get out of it is a 14.646 @ 96.82. This motor as advertised by FRPP should be making 340 HP at the flywheel. I still have the stock fuel pump, and rails.

I have a AOD with a 2000 stall converter, Trans-Go shift kit, and 3:73 gears. I am running 17x8.5 wheels with street tires all around. Stock suspension with KYB shocks and struts.

WHY IS THIS THING NOT RUNNING BETTER THAN THIS??????

[Wayne's 88 GT]

Ok, what was your 1/4 times with the stock motor?

[Mustang Leo]

Hmmm driver maybe? j/k:lol1:

[drivin-fool]

My best with the stock motor was a 15.033 @ 93.19

Leo I thought about that too :lol1:

[Quinn]

gap plugs at 35, loose that intake, reset fuel pressure (sounds a little high), need a bigger stall 2400+, and need driver modification LOL and a tire.

[NC STANG GUY]

Why are you running 30lb injectors? It'd get by with 19's and an adjustable fpr. I ran them on my coupe back in the day till it ran 12.40's @ 109-110.

Plug gap is fine. No reason to run them tighter unless you are running boost or nitrous.

It could use more stall with that E cam.
Could stand to go ahead and put a decent fuel pump in it. Go ahead with a GSS340 255lph so you wont have to ever do it again.

It'd help if the intake was ported,etc but even as is I'd think you should be in the mid 13's or so at 102-104 mph.

[BYEBYE2U]

intake is just fine,injectors are to big for that combo needs 24's but could get by with 19's. with an E-cam it performs best with a T-5 over an auto and the plug gap would be better set at 45 with running motor alone.the AOD unless built good is a big hold back in these cars.

[sly fox]

Has the car been tuned? Is your maf and the programmed for 30# injectors? What's your idle? You running a cai? You need to check your air to fuel. I think it may be off...

[92LX-5.8]

My coupe stock 302 and AOD combo went 14.9@96. I would think your mph is low. How much does your car weigh? I would think that with it being a heavier GT and also the heavy chrome 17 inch wheels that you may be losing ET and MPH there.. Also I would put the stock cam and 1.7 RR back if I was going to run th AOD.

[henrod]

I agree with leo it could be a case of O.E. (Operator error) hahaha just messin with you. I do agree though with the injector size, might be too much fuel holding it back and I've always heard the E cam is best for boosted motors. That's my $0.02

[Frankensteinlx]

What's your 60 ft. time and any other time down the track? Do you foot brake the car or leave at idle? What kind of tires are you using?

[thegreatord]

how about throttle body? fuel pump is a little weak and it could be a grip problem. does the engine get up in rpm faster then the old engine?

[midnight stang]

I agree the injectors are way to big, I ran 30's on my 347. I think it is the tune, honestly sounds like timing to me what is it set on? On 93 octane with the gt 40x heads and I am guessing 9.5 9.8 compression you should be able to run 16-18 degrees initial timing, and I have seen similar combos run 22-23 degrees. Low timing will make it really lazy, plus the huge fuel injectors making it fat. The intake is ok if I were you I would look to change it in the near future with something with a little more potential.

[drivin-fool]

FRPP suggested the 30 lb injectors so that is why I have them. The mass air is calibrated for the 30's.

Idle is set at about 900 rpm's. I am running a MAC CAI and a 70mm throttle body.

The wheels are a definite hold back, and I am currently looking for some drag lites or something similar. Street tires with 25 psi in the rear.

Timing is set at 14* This motor is 9.0:1 compression.

Fuel pump is next on the list as well as installing the new upper and lower control arms I already have.

I have been both footbraking and leaving from idle and it really isn't making much difference. The car runs 2.2-2.4 60 ft times consistantly with both old and new motor.

The intake is something I am looking at replacing next year, but according to FRPP they said the intake was good for the 340 HP they advertise.

I unloaded the spare tire, sub woofer, etc and got the 14.646 ET

This is video from the best run of the day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb911-mQvE0

[midnight stang]

more timing would help, we turned up 5.slo's timing at track day and he gained 1/2 a second.

[Silver91Hatch]

Short times are pretty bad. Get some stickys.

[nastynotchback1]

60ft times tell the story.Either spinning or it's very lazy on the bottom end.I agree the stall is to small but your in luck as i have a 2600 for an aod with about 4miles on it if you want it.

[drivin-fool]

60ft times tell the story.Either spinning or it's very lazy on the bottom end.I agree the stall is to small but your in luck as i have a 2600 for an aod with about 4miles on it if you want it.

PM me a price shipped to 23669 please. Thanks.

[TripleThreat]

Wow....

I pulled a 13.9 out of my old fox with a stock 302, with just intake/exhaust/3.73s


joo needs dat drivah mod

[nitrostangracin]

Injectors and tune are hurting you. Way too much Fuel for sure. That engine will run easily on a 19# set up.

[crumbie]

hard to call it driver error when the car is an auto. i'm gonna guess the aod with converter with such a low stall speed is your biggest hindrance. i'm gonna guess it needs at least a 3k stall converter, 4.10s, and some drag radials. that should crack the 13 sec door pretty easily.

[TripleThreat]

you need that much out of an auto to just break 13's?

[drivin-fool]

Ok with the 19 lb injectors what should I run the fuel pressure at now? I still have the stock ones and will put them back in tomorrow until I can find some 24's for it.

[Notch93]

Danny, are you leaving it D, and letting the trans shift it's self, or manually going through the gears? IMO, the tight 2,000 stall converter is hurting you bad, you need a looser converter, I run a 3,200 stall in mine.

[drivin-fool]

Danny, are you leaving it D, and letting the trans shift it's self, or manually going through the gears? IMO, the tight 2,000 stall converter is hurting you bad, you need a looser converter, I run a 3,200 stall in mine.

On old motor I was leaving it in 2 and letting it shift on it's own. With new motor I was shifting manually at about 6000 rpm. I am not sure what redline is on these motors so I didn't want to go much past that point.

[Notch93]

On old motor I was leaving it in 2 and letting it shift on it's own. With new motor I was shifting manually at about 6000 rpm. I am not sure what redline is on these motors so I didn't want to go much past that point.

So, then your leaving in 1, then shifting into D, then back down to 1 to hold 2nd gear, then shifting into 3rd gear?

5,800 - 6,000 rpm's is most likely where you should be shifting at with your combo.

From the video, it's hard to tell. But were you having traction problems, leaving the line? It didn't look like it from the video.

[drivin-fool]

Yeah I am doing the AOD dance :lol1:

It didn't feel like the tires were spinning to me. I understand they are harder street tires but I lowered air to 25 psi to make up for that some, and it seemed to hook ok, but it is just really slugish on the bottom end then it picks up. Like I said I tried footbraking but the stall wasn't enough so it was trying to push through the lights. I also started from an idle and it wasn't really much differnce in time nor speed.

[Notch93]

Again, IMO, you have to tight of a converter. We have similar setups, just with a few different parts. On street tires, even with the pressure lowered, mine will spin all the way through 1st, and most of the times all the way through 2nd as well. Yes, I need a set of DR's.:yes1:

Wish you were closer, I would say come by and go for a ride.

[drivin-fool]

Yeah I know man. Being up here is really a pain for alot of different reasons.

I am already looking into another stall. I am thinking 2400 so I retain some streetability.

What injectors do you run and at what psi?

[Notch93]

IMO, I wouldn't run anything under a 3,000 stall converter. Like I said, mines a 3,200 stall, and is 100% streetable. Drives like normal,:yes1: unless you press the go pedal all the way down.:p

I'm running 24lb injectors, before the tune it was set between 40-45 without vacuum. After the tune, not 100% sure where they set the fuel pressure. Tomorrow I can check what the gauge under the hood is reading with vacuum, and without.

Typically, it's hit and miss with regard to how an engine responds to fuel pressure changes. Some motors require a ton of fuel and some are happier with less.

[drivin-fool]

Ok man thanks for the info. I will definitely be making some changes with the injectors, and I will be looking for a new intake next year after taxes (if Obama gives me a return) and also getting a different stall too.

I would appreciate it if you could check that gauge tomorrow and get back to me. Thanks a bunch.

[Notch93]

Keep the GT40 intake and have Tmoss or XSR port the lower.:yes1: You might gain a few extra HP in upper rpm band, with a Holley or TFS intake, but will lose bottom and mid range torque as well. You need the torque with the AOD, especially a street car, IMO. Now if you were going to turn the motor more rpm's, or add a supercharger, then I would definitely say get a different intake.

[nitrostangracin]

Keep the Intake and port it like Eric suggested. Lower the Injector set up down and get a 3000 or 3200 convertor.!

[sly fox]

I have a C4 with a 3800 sc and 355 gears and my car is still pretty streetable! Not for the highway but still. Good luck and let us know how it turns out

[crumbie]

IMO, I wouldn't run anything under a 3,000 stall converter.

+1 and some 4.10 gears, then you will be needing some tires!

[tmorg85gt]

my 89lx has a stock aod but have done the trans pack witch is nothing but a shift kit but my set up is a stock bottom end with the stock e7's all i have done is a gear swap went with a 3.73 gt40 intake 75 tb 80 mass air with 24lbs injectors it has done 14.29 at 98mph it has to be the 32's that are hurting you bump the timming the motor loves timming and ice the intake you should be all in the 13secs

[tc_white]

hard to call it driver error when the car is an auto. i'm gonna guess the aod with converter with such a low stall speed is your biggest hindrance. i'm gonna guess it needs at least a 3k stall converter, 4.10s, and some drag radials. that should crack the 13 sec door pretty easily.

x2 on gear and stall. that would get the engine up in the rpm's its making the power at to get it moving. like midnight stang said also check the timing. i didnt realize how important it was until i go to messing with mine and it made a huge difference.

[TripleThreat]

I have a C4 with a 3800 sc and 355 gears and my car is still pretty streetable! Not for the highway but still. Good luck and let us know how it turns out

Lol @ pretty streetable when it has hit the street for less than 300 miles in more than 6 months.

Your 12-13 second car is more than streetable. It's not like you're talking about a 10 second car here

[nastynotchback1]

Ok man thanks for the info. I will definitely be making some changes with the injectors, and I will be looking for a new intake next year after taxes (if Obama gives me a return) and also getting a different stall too.

I would appreciate it if you could check that gauge tomorrow and get back to me. Thanks a bunch.

The converter i talked with you about is a lock-up converter so in the high gears crusing it will be streetable.

[drivin-fool]

Update: Car ran pretty decent tonight. First pass was a 14.091 @ 100.07 mph. I had a 2.17 60' time. Ran 9.11 @ 77.35 mph in the 1/8th. Driver error on that one. Car went into 3rd before the rpm's were up.

Second pass went 13.634 @ 102.86 with a 2.1 60'. 8.840 @ 81.77 mph 1/8th.

Third pass went 13.715 @ 102.88 with a 2.16 60' and 8.921 @ 81.74 1/8th.

This is still running the same street tires @ 25 psi. All in all I am pretty happy with it. I installed the 255 lph fuel pump last weekend and have the #30 injectors back in it. Fuel pressure set at 39 psi with vaccum off and plugged. Different CAI and different air filter. Running about 1/2 tank of 87 octane with 1 gal of CAM2. Still at 14* of timing. I also installed new lower control arms and have some drag shocks waiting to be installed and I have also add an O/R X pipe. Front sway bar still hooked up, but I will loosen that next trip as I didn't really have time today. With good tires I think high 12's are within reach. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions fellas.

2nd run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsHoRI5_I7o

3rd pass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vtK7PPLJss

[Blue Hatch]

When you decide to get a converter, don't get an off the shelf piece. Call Lenny UCC or call PTC. You'll be happier in the end with a custom converter.

[NC STANG GUY]

Running about 1/2 tank of 87 octane with 1 gal of CAM2.

Have to ask....why would you do that vs just running 92-93 octane premium?

[Glenn]

your '60's are killing you. You need to be below a 2.0.....I went 13.8 in a stock 5.0 5 speed with 3.73's stock suspension....only way I got below 2.0 is dr's.....you have plenty of engine, I'm sure a tune can help, but you should really start with the suspension, starting from the rear and going forward. Some dr's, control arms, subframe connectors will make a huge difference

[mymastifftucker]

You didn't change injectors, didnt adjust timing, same tires.........what made the big difference besides the shocks and control arms? You picked up over .5 second, that's huge!

[Silver Sleeper]

19 pound injectors, turn he fuel pressure down, 2400-2800 stall and a good tune....shouldnt be a problem going 12's

[drivin-fool]

Billy I did that because I don't usually run 93 octane since the price has gone crazy. I already had a 1/4 tank and just added $35 worth of regular gas which only gave me just under 3/4. Rather than spend 4 or 5 bucks on octane booster and getting a 12 oz. can, I spent 7 bucks and got a gallon which in turns boosts overall octane.....plus I like the smell :lol1:

[drivin-fool]

Billy I did that because I don't usually run 93 octane since the price has gone crazy, and this car is also my DD. I already had a 1/4 tank and just added $35 worth of regular gas which only gave me 3/4 tank then drove it 75 miles to the track. Rather than spend 4 or 5 bucks on octane booster and getting a 12 oz. can, I spent 7 bucks and got a gallon which in turns boosts overall octane.....plus I like the smell :lol1:

You didn't change injectors, didnt adjust timing, same tires.........what made the big difference besides the shocks and control arms? You picked up over .5 second, that's huge!

I am giving ALOT of credit to the new control arms. The drag shocks are not on the car yet. The original spark plugs that I got with the motor were new, but I don't think they were the right ones. The new CAI has a conical shape and an open end which I think helped in a big way too. The old MAC set up was closed on the end and was more of a oval shape. I think that hindered air flow quite a bit. I actually picked up over a second compared to last year's best of 14.6 @ 99 mph. The tires and the AOD are holding me back a little but it works for now.

[Bob@KMS]

who cares what injectors are in the car... as long as the fueling is correct, you could have 80s in there and it would be ok...

get the thing to a good tuner and have them work their magic... also, a GOOD torque converter will liven up a car... the converter can make or break a combination.

[drivin-fool]

Bob if you were closer I would have been at your door already.

[89stang1]

i agree with bob get GOOD torque converter....ive seen it make a very big difference.......good luck wit it bro u will get her there:thumbsup1:..........what do u think of nos cause when i had my stock engine with just bolt ons a 125hp dry shot took 2 seconds off my et 14.90 to 12.98

[Silver91Hatch]

who cares what injectors are in the car... as long as the fueling is correct, you could have 80s in there and it would be ok...

get the thing to a good tuner and have them work their magic... also, a GOOD torque converter will liven up a car... the converter can make or break a combination.

But being untuned it would be better to have the proper sized injectors in the car. I agree that it will run with large injectors but the quickest, simplest and cheapest thing to do at this point is to install 19's and a matching maf and see how it does.

[S-Trimmed302]

Get Rid of those 30s and MAF and put your Stock 19# injectors in there and a 76mm C&L MAF.Some people say C&L dont work but I have ran them 100% Successfull in alot of n/a combos.You could have the car tuned and the 30s would work perfectly but I dont see it worth the $$$ to spend $700+ to tune a N/A 302 not very cost efficient IMO..They dont work very well in a Blow Thru Turbo combo but In most combos the C&L will work fine.Try raising your timing some more as well I have ran as much as 18-19* Initial timing before on N/A Combos.Swap your fuelpump to a Walbro GSS340 Intank pump its the last fuelpump you will have to buy with that stock block motor.Id bet you would find alot of HP in a Torque converter swap.

[drivin-fool]

what do u think of nos cause when i had my stock engine with just bolt ons a 125hp dry shot took 2 seconds off my et 14.90 to 12.98

I wouldn't mind trying it for a pass or two but I don't want to make a habit of it :lol1: it might get good to me, which will lead to a 200 shot, which will lead to a 250 etc etc.

[drivin-fool]

Swap your fuelpump to a Walbro GSS340 Intank pump its the last fuelpump you will have to buy with that stock block motor.Id bet you would find alot of HP in a Torque converter swap.

I just installed a Walbro 255 pump a couple weeks ago.

[SSPGuy]

Here are my thoughts. I am running a 306 with ported GT40s E cam 24lb injectors TF intake yada yada. What is your suspension like? Stock? I have mega bit jr upper and lowers subframe connectors. I can nearly promise you its that AOD. I am running 13.2s with slicks and a tremec. Your intake my not be big enough as well. What heads came on it? GT40x heads?

[REEFBLUE331]

I had the original 5.0 motor with an e-cam, GT 40y heads, Cobra intake, 24lb injectors, 65mmTB, LT's with Flowmasters with 3:73's. 190lph pump. In the end it dynoed 265rwhp and ran a best of 13.3/103. Average et was about 13.5. I would have a tuner put it on a dyno and start from there. With that motor/gears and a decent 60ft = 12.80's seems realistic.

[1loudmouthpony]

Here are my thoughts. I am running a 306 with ported GT40s E cam 24lb injectors TF intake yada yada. What is your suspension like? Stock? I have mega bit jr upper and lowers subframe connectors. I can nearly promise you its that AOD. I am running 13.2s with slicks and a tremec. Your intake my not be big enough as well. What heads came on it? GT40x heads?

what gear are you running? thats a pretty good time

[fordcummins1994]

i had a similar set up in my hatch a few years ago gt40 intake rpm heads and a e-cam but mine was 8.6 or 7 comp i cant remember now it had 19# inj we ran the timing a little on the low side because 87 octane was all i ever ran it in but it would run 12.9's with a c-4 and 4.11's and switched to 3.55's and it still went 13.teens on motor and 12.0's on a 150 shot that was at bristol

[drivin-fool]

I have gotten a few things worked out with the engine and timing, and the car runs much better. Still lacking on the 60' times, but I think I will do better later this year when I make it back to the track. Best to date is 13.6 @ 102 mph.

[89stang1]

13.6 @ 102 mph aint bad at all especially with your mph at 102 with a better 60 and u are in 12s for sure:thumbsup1:

[drivin-fool]

The E-303 certainly isn't helping my cause, but I am not tearing into the motor anytime soon to replace it. This is my DD car so until I get another ride it will have to work for now. I think with some good slicks or DR's I will be well into the 12's. Gonna probably wait till the fall when temps are cooler to hit the track again, but as the car sits I am pretty happy with it. I really just wanted a respectable street car when I bought it 3 years ago, and I think I am pretty close to that now. Thanks for all the input guys.

[fordcummins1994]

awesome i hope you get it flying

[GTforever]

I have a simialiar setup with big bottom end loss,I was told to put a bigger stall in it,I currently have a 24/2600 stall and she's still dead at the bottom,IT'S been recommended to me to put a 3000 stall but this is my dailey and had concerns there but wish I had now,

[Silver Sleeper]

i have a TCI 3500 stall in my car and its fine on the street..i dont DD my mustang but with a good trans cooler you should be just fine

[GTforever]

So do you think with a 3000stall ide be okay on the street,I'm disabled so dont work the normal day or have to make as many miles but I do drive alot round town and highway when car seasons back in play,what might you recommend on the converter and cooler brandwise,I have the tci 24/2600 street fighter in it now and am sooo dissapointed,again probably cause i didn't go bigger with an AOD and all,thanks again,Randy

[boo00st]

depending on your budget, i would look into either ptc on there lower line, or give a call to cameron converters
companys like tci and b and m with there entry level stuff dont really put any thought into there converters, the other companys i mentioned actually give a ****

in a way a converter is a power adder in its own

[NC STANG GUY]

Too long as the converter is a lockup style converter the streetability is better...
I have a 3500 lockup in the 4R70W in my vert and it's fine for normal driving.