Reading the Wideband/Tuning(Long Post!!!)

[Silver91Hatch]

I got my wideband fixed today... Needed a sensor... (BTW on a side note, a AEM guage type wideband uses a 04 Caddy CTS upstream O2 sensor). But my question. At idle, its 14.5-15.9 sweeping. Under light throttle, its lean, I can make it go 17.0. Cruise/Part throttle its never rich, 14.9-15.9. At WOT it goes lean until it hits 2500ish then is goes 11.0 rich and comes back lean until I let out at 5600 and at 5600 it was 16.0. This is my question. I installed the wideband on the right hand exhaust pipe b/c I have a old O2 sensor in that side(I replaced the drivers side O2 with a new one before MW). Do I just need a new O2 for the idle, part throttle, and part throttle/cruise to be fixed. I think its going lean at WOT because I have a 347 with TW heads and a Performer intake and a STOCK 65K miles fuel pump and a stock regulator. I got a Walbro 255 to install and see if that takes car of my WOT leanness. Also do I need to change my injector break point?? I didn't when I burnt my first tune on the tweecer. Also another side note, on the stock EEC tune it never comes off of --- on the wideband at idle and then at part throttle it stays --- until it shoots to 11.0... My newbie, 45 second tune is 10,000,000x's better than a stock tune. Its scares me that I drove to MW and back on the stock tune.

[fast50]

I don't think your narrow band O2 is your problem, I think it is your tune. What size injectors are you using? What is your settings for high and low slopes?

[Silver91Hatch]

I have 30# injectors. Well let me add all Mods. 91 Coupe, Eagle 347, Lunati Flat tappet cam, 7 quart pan, TFS TW heads box stock, 1.6 roller tip rockers, equal length BBK shorties, off-road H-pipe, 2 chambers, full tail pipes, 3.55's, 30# injectors, 76/8mm Pro-M Maf, BBK fenderwell cold air, 65mm TB/spacer, eddy performer intake, stock fuel pump for now, 5 speed and a A9P comp, with TwEECer tune. I set the injector high and low slopes, maf transfer and CID and thats it. I don't have my cam card and they no longer make my cam. I couldn't find the injector breakpoint or I would have set it too. Oh yeah BTW that's 99% stock!

[Stable]

If you do not have the stock o2 hooked up on that bank, it will cause it to read funny at light loads and part throttle. You need to install another bung and have both narrow and wide bands in. This makes tuning much easier

[fast50]

Do you have your narrow band hooked up? I read the first post as you have it hooked up but suspect it is faulty.......

This should be your fuel injector offsets for 30# injectors.
Volts mSec
15.93750.718814.00000.718813.00000.906312.00001.00 0011.00001.093810.00001.31259.00002.03138.00002.59 387.00003.53136.00005.53135.50007.50000.00007.5000

[fast50]

It messed up the format.

Volts mSec
15.9375 0.7188
14.0000 0.7188
13.0000 0.9063
12.0000 1.0000
11.0000 1.0938
10.0000 1.3125
9.0000 2.0313
8.0000 2.5938
7.0000 3.5313
6.0000 5.5313
5.5000 7.5000
0.0000 7.5000

Fuel Injector Breakpoint

15.9998 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751
0.0000 1.9751

[Silver91Hatch]

I do have all the O2's hooked up, 2 narrow bands and 1 wide band in a seperate bung. I set the injectors high and low side in the tweecer, but what section/where do you setup the break point and offset?? I'm guessing in the "table" section?? I also went under MAF transfer and increased the entire curve rich my 4%. I am going to drive it now and see if its any better.

[fast50]

Offset and Breakpoint are under the functions tab. Are you using BE to make your tunes?

[Silver91Hatch]

No. I don't have/haven't bought BE yet, I'm just using CalEdit and CalCon. I don't think I wrote the TwEECer when I did the 4% richen in the entire curve as it didn't make any difference. Some how I screwed something up in the setting b/c it wouldn't run after I made the first adjustment. I had to go back and start from scratch, now I'm saving the tune after every little change.

[fast50]

You can download and use BE then save the file as a .bin. Open the .bin file in calcon and send it to the tweecer as a .bin. Don't save the new file in calcon because it is a proprietary file and you want be able to open it in another application.

BE is kept more up to date and I think alot easier to work with, I use the compare feature ( you can see the difference between two tunes) more than anything else.

[MustangCRZY302]

I'm not sure about the computer end of it, but I would Definalty get that new fuel pump in there. The stock one sounds like its maxed out. I'd go ahead and do the adjustable regulator too, Aeromotive.

[Silver91Hatch]

No adjustable regulator, I can make tunes with the TwEECer. I did find today that I can make the Load PID to to 160%... Not sure if thats normal. Also the ACT(Air Charge Temp) PID is reading 150-160 degrees F going down the road, I KNOW that isn't right. Also the fuel pump will go in when I run some fuel out of the car, its full right now.

[Silver91Hatch]

Has anyone relocated there ACT/IAT??? I am going to the salavge yard Saturday and getting a long harness with the correct pigtail to put the ACT in the inner fenderwell where the air filter. Also going to pick up a cheap IAT from a junker to use as a plug for my old port. I just bought that sensor from work(Ford Dealer) so I'm 99% sure it isn't bad but I didn't start Data-Logging until I was already on the highway a while and the heat was blowing good. I am going to check it cold and see what the reading is, it might be baised or just picking up the intake metal temp, I think its the latter, so relocation is in order.

[fast50]

What are your ACT readings? I have a turbo with the ACT in the stock location and I have no problems.

[Silver91Hatch]

ACT reads 120-180 driving down the road.

[fast50]

That is normal, the ACT sensor on EEC-IV dont really play that big a part on fuel its mostly for pulling spark at higher temps.

[Silver91Hatch]

I think I'll still relocated it so it will run a little bit richer and a bit more timing rather than less. I still need to find the area to fix the injector breakpoint. I did notice that after about 1/2 throttle it would go from way lean to 12.0ish rich. then come back as the throttle opened more. Do you know where to get flow number for a TB and spacer, I have an area to upload them and I think that every little bit would help make it run better.

[fast50]

Where are you going to enter flow numbers for a throttle body? The only entry for air flow is mass air.

[Silver91Hatch]

Not on CalEdit. I can add specs for TB, MAF, cam, etc... Any other ideas why I'm running lean under cruise and not after 1/2 throttle, or is that normal??? Or do I need to play with the fuel map and up it from idle to ~2800?

[fast50]

I don't use caledit so I don't know what to tell you about the entries for throttle body. If you go to eectuning.org you can see that even the first people that used the tweecer quickly dumped caledit for binary editor. It is much more accurate and kept up to date, and its free for just building tunes.

As far as running lean under part throttle, (assuming your fuel pressure is 38-39 psi) you need to make sure that you have the correct CID, accurate maf transfer, high slope of 30 and low slope of 38. The break points and offsets need to be entered. If you are still running lean at part throttle you can start tweaking your maf curve or bumping up and down the low slope with breakpoints.

If you start using BE you will never again touch caledit.

[Silver91Hatch]

I downloaded BE but never tried it. Can I swap my tune I have now to BE or do I just need to start over?? I have the CID set to 346.87... what ever ford wants it at, the only MAF transfer that looks even close was PROM_30. Its a 76 or 78mm Pro M caled for 30's. The low and high slopes are set but I need to set the breakpoints and offset.

[fast50]

You will have to start over but it will be worth it, BE will allow you to load templates that will simplify putting in all the numbers. Templates for injectors, maf, and just about everything else are at http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org.
Go to the GUFB strategy and you will see lots of them. In BE there will be a icon at the bottom to load a template after you have picked your def file and .bin file.

After you have your tune done save it as a .bin and open it with caledit, then push it to the tweccer.

[Silver91Hatch]

I'll give it a try. I know your running a turbo car so it will be a bit different, but what does your wideband read to cruise, part throttle and WOT?? Or rather what is optimal for the 3 conditions.

[fast50]

It hasn't always been a turbo. I have been tuning it since it was NA with spray, superchared, and now turbo.

Just driving around on basically flat ground holding a steady speed 14-15.9 is normal for any car. If you start going up a hill or any thing that will increase load you should start seeing it go down to 13-14.

WOT I have mine set for 11-11.5, I don't take chances. It runs just as good in the 11's as it does in the 12's.

A NA car I would tune for 12-12.5. If you add spray then I would go back into the 11's.

[Silver91Hatch]

Well flat ground cruising it is in the 14.2-16.0 range. Start to go up a hill and it leans out until I move the throttle past 1/2 way then it richens up to the 11.5-13.5 range.

[fast50]

From that it sounds like your break point is to high.

[Silver91Hatch]

So I was reading and giving my self a head ache last night. The break point is where is goes from from a small injector(30) to a big injector(38.5)???

[fast50]

Yes but you have it backwards. The High slope is the smaller number for WOT, the low slope (bigger number) is for part throttle.

Injectors when opening for small pulse widths (part throttle) are very sloppy so this number (bigger number) is calculated with the battery voltage to determine pulse width.

The High slope should be actual injector size (smaller number). The low is usually a number given from the manufacter for certain voltages.

If you change the Low Slope to a smaller size than it is you should see your WB go rich. I don't recomend changing the number all the time just something to test and make sure you see the changes you expect. To correctly set the fuel mix you should set the battery offset, breakpoint, and maf transfer.

[Silver91Hatch]

Yeah. I'm still a tuning newb. but I have good info b/c I work at a Ford Dealer as a Tech and I have access to anything for a fox. I read as much as possible until my head starts to hurt then I have to put it down. I'll play with BE Saturday and Sunday and see what I can find. Also on the MAF transfer, why does C&L have diff. mm sizes and otherbrands are sorted by mm but the ProM is just 19, 24, 30, 42lb injectors???

[Silver91Hatch]

Also, what all can you do with the free version of BE??? Can I do the dragstrip or datalogger, etc??

[fast50]

Pro M's do come in sizes but they are calibrated for injector size, but you can use them with any size injector as long as the size of the tube is big enough to move the amount of air your motor needs and you have the calibration sheet for that MAF. The two things to consider when buying a MAF for a car is how much air does this motor combo need and what size injectors. You don't want to buy to big of a MAF but the calibration doesn't matter as much as long as you have a good transfer sheet to load into the software.

You can use the free version of BE for making tunes, loading templates, and basically anything but communicating with the tweecer (dataloging, dragstrip, and writing tunes to the tweecer).

I used it like this for a long time before I bought it, just make your tune then use caledit to write it to the tweecer.

[Silver91Hatch]

About the MAF I don't have the transfer sheet but, I do have the MAF transfer file, is the loaded file good enough??

About the BE, basically set the MAF transfer, CID, Inj. Slopes, breakpoint and offset and idle and burn it to .bin file 1. Go back to CalEdit and Calcon and datalog with CalEdit and Calcon and the wideband. I got a question tho, I have to burn a "payload" in the .bin file on CalEdit to Datalog in CalCon. Can I burn the "payload" in BE to datalog with CalCon? Also how do I plot and Datalog my wideband in CalCon, its a AEM guage type wideband but I would like to replay a 1/8th mile passes to see what my changes do and if I need to change setting to make it rich/lean/FASTER.

[fast50]

The maf file you have is probably fine, you will most likely need to tweak it a little.

About the calcon . . . .

I don't know, I used caledit for about a day and got pissed off then stated using BE for everything. Maybe if you save the .bin then open it up with caledit and save it to the caledit file you can then load this to calcon. This would be just a guess of something to try.

[Silver91Hatch]

I wonder if I upload the payload and tune into BE burn it to the TwEECer, if I can datalog with CalCon, I guess I'll let you know tomorrow. As a side note, what do you not like about CalEdit?? I have used it about a month or 2 and I have had no problems with it, the lingo is a bit on the tech side, but that about it.

[fast50]

Wait untill it starts corrupting your tunes for no reason. Also I like being able to use a open format .bin so I can use any program to view or edit it.

[fast50]

Also caledit has some of the parms mislabeled.

[Silver91Hatch]

Well I just started BE. Man theres a lot of crap on here. CalEdit is more of a simple for. I am using a A9P comp in my 5 speed car. Do I still need to use the GUFB Def with the A9P.bin???

[fast50]

Yes A9P is a GUFB strategy.

[Silver91Hatch]

Well. I was googleing and reading everything I can get my hands on. I started my TwEECing on BE with GUF1 and a starting with a A9P.bin and made my changes. Will that work??

[fast50]

No!!!!! Do not use the wrong strategy it may look right but you could be putting the wrong info in the fields and f*$ up your motor. Thats why I put that GUFB in the post above.

[Silver91Hatch]

So, GUFB def. file, A9P.bin to start with and adapt from there??

[Silver91Hatch]

Also, do you have EEC Analyzer and if you do, do you use it or like it?? And I have some other questions, If I purchase BE the full version and then buy a new laptop, can I transfer it to the new one?? Is it like a verification number I can right down and transfer to a new laptop? Thanks.

[Silver91Hatch]

Well I loaded a GUFB def file and a A9P.bin file and everything is wrong.... CID 498??? Num of cylinders 1257???? What wrong?? It loads a A9L.bin fine...

[fast50]

No I do not have the EEC Analyzer. Some people like I didn't need it.

Yes you can move it to a different computer, just as long as you don't move it to often it might look like you are trying to steal a copy.

I told you wrong A9P is GUF1.

Here is a place you can look up your strategy by ECU code. http://eecanalyzer.net/downloads/index2.php?method=getfile&dir=&file=Calibration%20Lookup.xls

[Silver91Hatch]

I got another question, whats new! When I build a tune on BE, do I save it as a .bin file and then open CalEdit, open the tune and then burn the TwEECer or use the button on BE that looks like a chip down to load it to the TwEECer??

[fast50]

You can't burn it to the tweecer with BE unless you have paid for it, you can save it as a .bin and then use caledit to burn it to the tweecer as a .bin.

[Silver91Hatch]

I think I'm going to sell some stuff and get some paypal up and just buy BE. I think it would be better than saving and loading and saving and loading, etc. How do you upload templates from the pc to BE? I have downloaded templates but I can figure out what I need to do with them. The only template I found that I can use was the 30# inj. I didn't see for my MAF, etc. Also I have a bad tip in lean condtition, do you think I should switch to a A9S PCM to get back to the 5 speed side of thing, since the auto it long gone?

[fast50]

You will have to start over but it will be worth it, BE will allow you to load templates that will simplify putting in all the numbers. Templates for injectors, maf, and just about everything else are at http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org.
Go to the GUF1 strategy and you will see lots of them. In BE there will be a icon at the bottom to load a template after you have picked your def file and .bin file.

After you have your tune done save it as a .bin and open it with caledit, then push it to the tweccer.

See page 2.

[fast50]

Here is a solution that worked for a guy on eectuning.

I had a similar problem. I solved this problem by reducing the Injector Offset table to reduce the rich decel. I also turned off fuel learning for idle and near-idle conditions and purposely setup the MAF to run idle flow conditions lean so the EEC will respond by lowering the LAMBSEs into the low 14s and 13s. Then when I tip-into a load, the LAMBSEs are already low and I either tip-in perfect or a tad rich. That strategy has worked well for me for a long time.


Lean tip in can be a hard one to correct. If you are really rich when you push in the clutch the computer can over react. I run my car in open loop all the time so I haven't run into these issues. Some people do what I do and some use closed loop also.

[Silver91Hatch]

Are you running it in open loop to keep it from "learning" or self adjusting or is there some other tuning mystery I haven't read up on yet??? Yes, when I push the clutch it goes 11.0 for 1-2 sec then back lean. Do you think the A9P is hurting me?? I can switch to a A9S to get back to the 5 speed relam.

[fast50]

You should not use the A9S file, it is for the GUFA strategy and yours is the GUF1. I think the A9T is the file for the manual transmission. You can get it from http://eecanalyzer.net/downloads/index2.php?dir=/GUF1

I use open loop because I think it is the easiest to tune. Ask several people and you will get different answers. I believe that their is no right way just different ways. I like the way it gives me more control over the ecu. By tunning in open loop it acts more like a FAST or BIGSTUFF speed density system but with mass air. Several people I am sure will disagree but there are just as many people that tune in open loop as closed loop. It comes down to which ever way you want to do it.

[Silver91Hatch]

The PCM doesn't "learn" in open loop does it? So basically you tune your car with MAF transfer and injector slopes to provide the right air/fuel? What do you do about spark timing, etc? Thanks. Deciding on tuning in Closed Loop and making open loop tweaks for the dyno and track.

[fast50]

No it doesn't learn, but I turn my adaptive learning off anyway. If you look under the functions tab you will see a setting for Spark - WOT Advance vs RPM . This controls spark advance. It is stock 16 + your base timing of 10 for a total of 26deg.

[Silver91Hatch]

Cool. I am going to buy BE soon, I thought it was $60 but then I went to the sire and now its $75!!! Dang, gotta sell more stuff to afford BE. I'm sure I will be back on this theard soon when I get BE and go to the dyno.

[fast50]

eec editor it is free, and very similar to BE. I don't use it because I was already using BE but it seems to be a great program. You can download it from the moates.net site.

[Silver91Hatch]

I downloaded everything I could when I got the TwEECer. Can you use EEC Editor directly with the TwEECer or do I have to write a tune, save it, etc??