I'm running a 150 hp shot...well are you?

[Stable]

I spend a lot of time talking to people about what hp shot they are running. At least 90% of the time what you think you are running and what you are running is different. If your buddy is running .xx nitrous jet and .xx fuel jet, and you try it, 99% of the time it will not be the same. No 2 cars act the same to the same jets...they might be close, but ....

This is a big subject, and I will break it down into several different areas

wet systems for carb/wet systems for EFI and dry hits for EFI

As far as Dry systems for EFI, for 99% of the cars out there this is not a very exact way to run N20....but very easy to install and least amount of $$$

Wet EFI... this is much more controlled than a dry kit, but you will have issues depending on the intake and the kit

Carbs...this depends on plat style and plate vs fogger


I will stop here for now, and lets hear some questions....

[boosted91lx]

I hear several different opinions about the perfect compression ratio for running nitrous. Whats your view on this?

[GEO302]

I am running a 150 EFI dry kit
My set up will be differant from ALL :yes1:
I use a Diablo CMR Flip chip
My N20 set up = Purge / N20 solinoid ( That's ALL ) Simple
The fuel side is controlled by my # 2 Bank N20 tune file
From 3500-6700 RPM My car is tuned ( SAFE )
I shift the car @ 6000 RPM
I do not run a window switch,Had the tune to dump fuel past my shift point in case of a miss shift.
I also modified my switch to my tune files,Letting me flip between tunes when my 2 step is engaged ( Have not seen this yet )
Works WELL !!!!!!!!

[Stable]

I hear several different opinions about the perfect compression ratio for running nitrous. Whats your view on this?

compression should be as high as you need it to be....depends on the fuel and what you are tring to do..We run 13:1 and will spray all that we can.
timing control is the key, as you do not want any pre ignition

[Stable]

I am running a 150 EFI dry kit
My set up will be differant from ALL :yes1:
I use a Diablo CMR Flip chip
My N20 set up = Purge / N20 solinoid ( That's ALL ) Simple
The fuel side is controlled by my # 2 Bank N20 tune file
From 3500-6700 RPM My car is tuned ( SAFE )
I shift the car @ 6000 RPM
I do not run a window switch,Had the tune to dump fuel past my shift point in case of a miss shift.
I also modified my switch to my tune files,Letting me flip between tunes when my 2 step is engaged ( Have not seen this yet )
Works WELL !!!!!!!!

Sounds sweet...what are you doing different in you N20 Tune other than spark?

[GEO302]

Sounds sweet...what are you doing different in you N20 Tune other than spark? Fuel / Timing

[Stable]

Fuel

PW? How often do you check you injectors? What size injector and do they not go Static?

[GEO302]

PW? How often do you check you injectors? What size injector and do they not go Static?

I run 42's
When i set this motor up,I was running 30's with a 255 fuel pump.
The car was running lean,So i found a deal on brand new 42's and a calibrated 87mm Pro M meter for 400.00
My motor moves alot of wind
My compression ratio is 9.2
I now run 2 pumps =
255 Internal
255 External
For safety reasons only,If one goes down the other is still working

[Stable]

whats your max PW%?

[GEO302]

whats your max PW%?
455 HP / 570 TQ on a 150 shot

[Stable]

whats your max PW%?

injector Pulse Width

[GEO302]

injector Pulse Width
I wish i knew,I would have to get my tuner to open my tune files.
If i get the chance i will ask him.

[turbocoupe]

I've heard theories that with the right timing, you can run air fuel levels as lean as 13:1 on nitrous. I've also hear other guys treat it like a forced induction car with the air fuels down in the 11.5:1 range. Does the amount of shot have an effect on this.

[crumbie]

As far as Dry systems for EFI, for 99% of the cars out there this is not a very exact way to run N20....but very easy to install and least amount of $$$

true. put a lil dry shot on mine with stock stuff and fuel system and picked up over 5 mph in the 1/8th. we did bump up the fp slightly, regapped the plugs, and adjusted to timing to x* ;) and that was it.

[mg98ta]

A lot of the difference in power and performance can also come from different brand nitrous kits. TNT & NX measure their shot at the tires. Where NOS, CompuCar, & others are rated at the flywheel. Their jet charts are even different. Hope this helps out.

[Stable]

I've heard theories that with the right timing, you can run air fuel levels as lean as 13:1 on nitrous. I've also hear other guys treat it like a forced induction car with the air fuels down in the 11.5:1 range. Does the amount of shot have an effect on this.

the amount of shot does not matter.The A/F that you run is a personal choice, but I feel that a A/F in 12's will work on most all setup's. When run multiple shot you will need to set the secon/third hits up riche.r

[Stable]

A lot of the difference in power and performance can also come from different brand nitrous kits. TNT & NX measure their shot at the tires. Where NOS, CompuCar, & others are rated at the flywheel. Their jet charts are even different. Hope this helps out.

the point that I am trying to make is that the same brand kits will not give the same results on different cars. Each setup is different. We have work with a brand x plate on the dyno, and ran over 40 lbs of n2o in one day testing jetting. From there jets setting for 150...which put 90 to the tire..till we had a smaller n2o jet in that put 150 to the tire.

[Stable]

what is every one's idea as to what N2O does when it is put into a motor.....

[nastynotchback1]

what is every one's idea as to what N2O does when it is put into a motor.....

it adds oxygen so the extra fuel it adds can be burned to make more hp

[ss_70_n0va]

what is every one's idea as to what N2O does when it is put into a motor.....


it allows the engine to burn more fuel and air, resulting in a more powerful combustion. The gas itself is not flammable, but it delivers more oxygen than atmospheric air by breaking down at elevated temperatures.

[Stable]

it adds oxygen so the extra fuel it adds can be burned to make more hp

yep

the air that we breath is about 25-26% oxygen...N2O is 33% oxygen by volume/36% by weight. When Liquid N2O is injected It wil Boil ( change to a liquid) and give a cooling effect. It Boils at a temp much lower than 0. at temp this low there is a hugh cooling effect. A 10 degree drop in temp will make approx. 1% more HP. At 572 degrees it splits into 2 atoms of nitrogen and one of oxygen. When the Oxygen is released, this allowes the engine to burn more fuel. The nitrogen that is released acts as a buffer to calm the combustion chamber down to have a better controlled process.

[Stable]

What are the 2 main reasons for a purge? And a cool show for everyone is not one of them....

[Bizarro]

What are the 2 main reasons for a purge? And a cool show for everyone is not one of them....

to get to the best bottle pressure? and clear the lines? :sad1: im not a NO2 guy so i dont know for sure... :lol1:

[Jameson90]

to get to the best bottle pressure? and clear the lines? :sad1: im not a NO2 guy so i dont know for sure... :lol1:

one should definitely be getting all air out of lines and getting n20 right up to the solenoid. but i think mark is wrong, the second is definitely for the cool show!!! :lol1::lol1:

seriously though, sounds right to me shawn.

[Stable]

one should definitely be getting all air out of lines and getting n20 right up to the solenoid. but i think mark is wrong, the second is definitely for the cool show!!! :lol1::lol1:

seriously though, sounds right to me shawn.

to clear out the lines of nitrous that has "Boiled" not a liquid. And to set the bottle pressure correct. A change of 75 lbs on the bottle pressure will effect the tune up..+ 75 leaner -75 richer......This is why everyone needs a pressure gauge that they can see from the seat.....

[jboren93]

it adds oxygen so the extra fuel it adds can be burned to make more hp

x2 its all about cramming it and burning it in that cylinder:patriot: IMO

[gearhead302]

nitrous is an oxidizer. 100% pure oxegen would work..... alittle too good. it would be like dropping a grenade in your motor though. thats why the space shuttle doesnt use it. one spark and thats all it takes. do you remember chemistrey in high school? N2O it is less potent than oxegen.

[Bizarro]

nitrous is an oxidizer. 100% pure oxegen would work..... alittle too good. it would be like dropping a grenade in your motor though. thats why the space shuttle doesnt use it. one spark and thats all it takes. do you remember chemistrey in high school? N2O it is less potent than oxegen.


Speeling bee:

Gearhead302...youre up!
http://southeasternfoxbodies.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=553&pictureid=13798

teacher< "GEARHEAD302....... Spell............chemistry"

Gearhead302.......chemistry?

teacher< "....yes.... chemistry...."

gearhead302..... ok....chemistry....

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chemistry.

teacher< ..." that is incorrect! .... you only have one more chance "

teacher< ..." Gearhead302....spell..........oxygen "

Gearhead302.........oxygen??

Teacher<....." Yes....oxygen "

gearhead302 .........OXYGEN.......

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teacher< .....

http://southeasternfoxbodies.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=553&pictureid=16871

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1::thumbsup1:

just giving ya a hard time man!... im BAD at spelling too! :yes1:

[jboren93]

LMAO way to go spelling johnny:thumbsup1::patriot:

[fstrthnu373]

throw the hp numbers and a/f ratio away. this is why when you talk too guys that know what there doing thell talk about what jet size there running not what shot. A/f will vary, were the 02 is placed and two different o2s might read to slightly different things.02 readings are a plus to have dont get me wrong but the end all be all in nitrous tuning is what the plug looks like. as for compression my next motor will have 14.5 all that matters is you have a cam ground for you combination.

[Stable]

throw the hp numbers and a/f ratio away. this is why when you talk too guys that know what there doing thell talk about what jet size there running not what shot. A/f will vary, were the 02 is placed and two different o2s might read to slightly different things.02 readings are a plus to have dont get me wrong but the end all be all in nitrous tuning is what the plug looks like. as for compression my next motor will have 14.5 all that matters is you have a cam ground for you combination.

without know what A/F vs plugs look like, yes A/F numbers are not any good...but jets sizes without pressure are just as worthless. Very few people read plugs correct...and I am just as slack at this as 99% of the people out there. If you see someone take a plug out and look at it, then they are not really seeing what is going on. The only way to read a plug is for it to be brand new and make a full hit on it and shut the motor down as it crosses the finish line...if you idle back to the pits, you will put deposits on the plug. Also it is all most impossible to see a fuel ring on the plug without cutting it apart. You can see where the timing is by looking at the ground strap. Once A/F numbers are qulified vs the plugs, then it is much easier to check changes with the A/F...also you really need to know what fuel is being ran to see what jetting should be.....the weight of racing fuel will have a effect on the jetting

[fstrthnu373]

without know what A/F vs plugs look like, yes A/F numbers are not any good...but jets sizes without pressure are just as worthless. Very few people read plugs correct...and I am just as slack at this as 99% of the people out there. If you see someone take a plug out and look at it, then they are not really seeing what is going on. The only way to read a plug is for it to be brand new and make a full hit on it and shut the motor down as it crosses the finish line...if you idle back to the pits, you will put deposits on the plug. Also it is all most impossible to see a fuel ring on the plug without cutting it apart. You can see where the timing is by looking at the ground strap. Once A/F numbers are qulified vs the plugs, then it is much easier to check changes with the A/F...also you really need to know what fuel is being ran to see what jetting should be.....the weight of racing fuel will have a effect on the jetting

jet size is worth something look at jet ristricted nitrous classes ( pressures on the nitrous side really dont vary that much 900-1000) . If 99% of people arnt reading there plugs then they shouldnt ***** when they tear something up. you can use an otoscope to see down in the plugs without cutting them open. new plugs every pass cut off and tow back untill your tune is correct. then you can start to get slack on pulling plugs but if you run a big shot they ALL should be pulled EVERY run. BTW 150 shot isnt much and is hard to hurt anything if you just go by the chart the kit gives you. I dont (along with many other racers) dont rely on 02 sensors I rather read the plugs the only thing that is in the combustion chamber and can tell you what actually happened, 13.1 af for one car might be good but 13.1 might burn up another but the plugs should always look the same way in every motor.

[Stable]

jet size is worth something look at jet ristricted nitrous classes ( pressures on the nitrous side really dont vary that much 900-1000) . If 99% of people arnt reading there plugs then they shouldnt ***** when they tear something up. you can use an otoscope to see down in the plugs without cutting them open. new plugs every pass cut off and tow back untill your tune is correct. then you can start to get slack on pulling plugs but if you run a big shot they ALL should be pulled EVERY run. BTW 150 shot isnt much and is hard to hurt anything if you just go by the chart the kit gives you. I dont (along with many other racers) dont rely on 02 sensors I rather read the plugs the only thing that is in the combustion chamber and can tell you what actually happened, 13.1 af for one car might be good but 13.1 might burn up another but the plugs should always look the same way in every motor.

pressure on the nitrous side can be what ever you want it to be, and +- 50 psi Is going to start to chage the tune up...+- 100 psi will make a difference. A racer that make the first hit with 1000 psi is going to see the car chage when they hit it with 900 psi...If not then the did not have the system maxed, and the jetting was off to start with.......and I agree that most dont use A/F ratios, because they dont have them, and have never used them correctly...and yes 150 hit is not going to tear up a lot of thing, I was just using that as a example.....and as I said before A/F, Like a dyno HP number is just that....a number...dont mean anything unless you use it right

[91GT347]

Im shooting a .082 N2O , and a .091 fuel jet. On a Big Shot plate. Supposedly a 225 shot. Never dyno'd it to see how close it is to that. She does 135 in the 1/4 though on a stock block. lol Has to be close to that I'd say. lol ......and yes I know its a time bomb. lol

[Stable]

Im shooting a .082 N2O , and a .091 fuel jet. On a Big Shot plate. Supposedly a 225 shot. Never dyno'd it to see how close it is to that. She does 135 in the 1/4 though on a stock block. lol Has to be close to that I'd say. lol ......and yes I know its a time bomb. lol

Fuel pressure? I bet that the car as some black smoke when you hit it....

[fstrthnu373]

Im shooting a .082 N2O , and a .091 fuel jet. On a Big Shot plate. Supposedly a 225 shot. Never dyno'd it to see how close it is to that. She does 135 in the 1/4 though on a stock block. lol Has to be close to that I'd say. lol ......and yes I know its a time bomb. lol

look at the new jetting maps on nos web site for there systems they have been revised now your fuel jet will be smaller than your nitrous and will be alot better tuneup even if you went .082 on the fuel it would still be fat at the recommended flowing fuel pressure. what im saying is if your @135 now youll get some more mph and et with the new jetting map.

[Derek@amazon]

what is every one's idea as to what N2O does when it is put into a motor.....

nitrogen burns off (nitrogen is just the carrier for the good stuff) leaving oxygen behind... air +fuel= power... so more air + more fuel = more power


btw have you ever taken the monte smith nitrous class? its on my to do list if the race car stays nitrous powered.

[Stable]

nitrogen burns off (nitrogen is just the carrier for the good stuff) leaving oxygen behind... air +fuel= power... so more air + more fuel = more power


btw have you ever taken the monte smith nitrous class? its on my to do list if the race car stays nitrous powered.

I have read a lot of his stuff, and his class sounds good. I use a lot of Dave Koehler's stuff and his software. Dave's software and site will help one really understand whatis going on. Also have keep up with Mike Canters ideas and toughts on N2O

[Derek@amazon]

cool... i'll have to check them out. right now we are working with don burton since its his old fulton small block. but it would always be nice to be able to do what he does when he's not at the track with us.

[Stable]

cool... i'll have to check them out. right now we are working with don burton since its his old fulton small block. but it would always be nice to be able to do what he does when he's not at the track with us.

Daves software is VERY nice when it comes to moving know setups to a different hp level

[Nova]

what is every one's idea as to what N2O does when it is put into a motor.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqreiLcDaA

[Derek@amazon]

. The only way to read a plug is for it to be brand new and make a full hit on it and shut the motor down as it crosses the finish line...if you idle back to the pits, you will put deposits on the plug.

as much as i hate having to do plugs every pass with the big SC1 heads i agree with this 150%

another thing that is good to have is a plug stand. number your plugs 1-8 every pass save the plugs. SAVE your plugs and keep them on the stand. we keep 5-6 sets of plugs gapped and scuffed ready when we get to the track. when we get some down time we will gap a set or 2 so we always have plugs.

[89stang1]

WOW very informative thread lots of real NOS smart people here.....be great to get some of u guys advise with my build as im ready to spray hopefully without a fail!.......i have a project build thread with all my parts for reference appreciate any help:thumbsup1:

[Stable]

anything we can do...just let us know...any questions, just post them up

[Stable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqreiLcDaA

nice find

[89stang1]

anything we can do...just let us know...any questions, just post them up

Thanks Stable i dont wanna hijack this thread i have the thread under this one ...........i know im not pointing out any one thing, i have some NOS experience not alot just really nervous about spraying new engine had a bad experience before with NOS after i disconnected my Zex traction control unit after it was only working on and off

[Gerald Dyer]

There more info. you can get on your combo the better off you are. Last year we ran a 632 for 3/4 of a season never beinging sent down the track with no less than 300 and we only looked at the plugs once. the more info. you have the more that butterfly feeling will go away, it's not a guessing game you have hard info. Far as A/f number not meaning anything you are dead WRONG. I due agree meter placement means some but that gauge doesn't lie.

[fstrthnu373]

There more info. you can get on your combo the better off you are. Last year we ran a 632 for 3/4 of a season never beinging sent down the track with no less than 300 and we only looked at the plugs once. the more info. you have the more that butterfly feeling will go away, it's not a guessing game you have hard info. Far as A/f number not meaning anything you are dead WRONG. I due agree meter placement means some but that gauge doesn't lie.

I gotta give it to ya theres no way in hell i would run a 300 and not pull the plugs everypass threw the course of a season your fuel pump can start to get weak and not flow enough throwing off your tuneup nitrous filter gets restricted jets get debree in them, the list of stuff that can/dos happen goes on and on. the thing I dont like about using 02s for tuning without pulling plugs is it measures a bank and not individual cylinders its a average of them one might be on the verg of killing itself and the others be a touch fat and the 02 readings look good.

[fstrthnu373]

plus on a big shot weather and density altitude play a big roll. if the da gets around 3000 feet and your tuneup is for 800 feet you better pull some extra timing pull the plugs and see if you pulled enough or not, this kind of change can happen in the course of one test session. But also this is if your trying to get a clean tune up if your pulling extra timing or have a little extra fuel and your tuneup is not set to make max power to begin with then weather change dosnt play as big apart. But I like clean tuneups because to much fuel can hurt stuff and slow you down

[Derek@amazon]

plus on a big shot weather and density altitude play a big roll. if the da gets around 3000 feet and your tuneup is for 800 feet you better pull some extra timing pull the plugs and see if you pulled enough or not, this kind of change can happen in the course of one test session. But also this is if your trying to get a clean tune up if your pulling extra timing or have a little extra fuel and your tuneup is not set to make max power to begin with then weather change dosnt play as big apart. But I like clean tuneups because to much fuel can hurt stuff and slow you down


yup our tune up isnt set half the time till we get called into the stageing lanes.

any of you guys go off bottle temp and not bottle pressure?

[Stable]

plus on a big shot weather and density altitude play a big roll. if the da gets around 3000 feet and your tuneup is for 800 feet you better pull some extra timing pull the plugs and see if you pulled enough or not, this kind of change can happen in the course of one test session. But also this is if your trying to get a clean tune up if your pulling extra timing or have a little extra fuel and your tuneup is not set to make max power to begin with then weather change dosnt play as big apart. But I like clean tuneups because to much fuel can hurt stuff and slow you down

weather does effect the tunes...but only on the motor side...remember that you are caring your own weather in a bottle.....now If you are running dead on kill...it is a different story. But then again if you are running on kill you will kill something from time to time. Most of the time we leave enough room in the motor tune to take care of 90% of the weather issues...Once last year we made a adjustment to the n2o to take care of some Bad air...we will adjust timing more for traction than tune...as 99.9% of the time it is not about making the most power, but getting down the track

[fstrthnu373]

any of you guys go off bottle temp and not bottle pressure?[/QUOTE]

ive seen alot of guys going to this method havent had much experience with that but from what ive heard and seen its alot more consistant this way.

[Derek@amazon]

any of you guys go off bottle temp and not bottle pressure?

ive seen alot of guys going to this method havent had much experience with that but from what ive heard and seen its alot more consistant this way.[/QUOTE]

don got us doing it this way... he put it 92* is 92* everywhere but 900lbs on that gauge isnt the same as 900lbs at 5000ft

[Stable]

what should we beat to death next on N2o...any question out there?

[Stable]

any of the carb n20 guys tried high fuel pressure settings? I have done a few, and the results have been what they should have been...might have hit a tad harder....

[Derek@amazon]

think the fuel pressure on the race car at the nitrous regulators is something like 20lbs IIRC

[Stable]

think the fuel pressure on the race car at the nitrous regulators is something like 20lbs IIRC

do ya'll run a controller?

[Derek@amazon]

do ya'll run a controller?

hell no... hit that **** and hit it hard!

i would think it would give us rod problems. we run GMP aluminum rods. don bitchs everytime bob has to pedel the car. said its hard on the rods since when he lifts all the nitrous is off and then kicks back on... i dont understand it but he's the builder and knows what hes doing

[Stable]

hell no... hit that **** and hit it hard!

i would think it would give us rod problems. we run GMP aluminum rods. don bitchs everytime bob has to pedel the car. said its hard on the rods since when he lifts all the nitrous is off and then kicks back on... i dont understand it but he's the builder and knows what hes doing

whatever keep the motor man happy...we have been running GRP's and have not had any issues...the controller that we use resets and bring the n2o back in as starting....

[Derek@amazon]

whatever keep the motor man happy...we have been running GRP's and have not had any issues...the controller that we use resets and bring the n2o back in as starting....

thats how our timers work... the first kit comes on off the tbrake then the 2nd kit comes on 1 second after the first. not sure where we will hit the 3rd kit.

[Stable]

thats how our timers work... the first kit comes on off the tbrake then the 2nd kit comes on 1 second after the first. not sure where we will hit the 3rd kit.

using a 7531 box? are just several "small" hits?

[Derek@amazon]

pretty sure its a 7531. and the first kit is pretty small. went from 9.16 to an 8.21. the real 2nd kit is the "big" one don said. but we have been hitting the 3rd kit in place of the 2nd because the old chassis was complete ****. the should be hitting the real 2nd this season once the motor is back together.

[Stable]

do ya'll "ride the dots" are keep the limits higher?

[Derek@amazon]

do ya'll "ride the dots" are keep the limits higher?

i have no idea... never heard of ride the dots?

[Stable]

it has to do with the setting on the digtal 7 7531 box

[91GT347]

Fuel pressure? I bet that the car as some black smoke when you hit it....

5 3/4 to 6# Somewhere around there. lol Its on a WOT switch. So its hit right off the line.

[91GT347]

look at the new jetting maps on nos web site

You have a link to these ? I was looking and found where I thought it should be, but it wouldnt load the page for some reason.

[asheborogn]

I thought Nitrous came factory on all 5.0 cars.....:lol1: :lol1:

[Bizarro]

Ive got a box full of NO2 stuff.... with a full 10lb. bottle....

ready to install it? :lol1:

[bottlefedpony]

Ok mark here is a question for you:

Whats a safe limit for a stock block 5.0? I was only running a 100 shot on my 08, but what would be safe for a 89'?

[Stable]

With a good tune and ignition system up to par, a "clean" 150 is no problem....get much more than that and you will need a controller to ramp it in. And when I say clean 150, than is at the tires running about a 5.5 N/F ratio

[bottlefedpony]

With a good tune and ignition system up to par, a "clean" 150 is no problem....get much more than that and you will need a controller to ramp it in. And when I say clean 150, than is at the tires running about a 5.5 N/F ratio

150 sounds yummy...sign me up. I think the specs on my kit say its good to about 175 shot. What would be the right MSD ignition box for my situation? Would the stock t-5 handle all that torque?